The Heart of Business
"The Heart of Business" podcast, hosted by Mo Fathelbab, is an authentic and insightful exploration of the human side of leadership and professional growth. Through candid conversations with accomplished business leaders, thought leaders, and peer group facilitators, Mo will delve deep into the personal journeys, challenges, and triumphs that have shaped their careers. Mo Fathelbab's skillful and empathetic approach creates a safe space for guests to share their truths and vulnerabilities, revealing the emotional and often unseen dimensions of success in the corporate world. Each episode offers listeners a chance to glean practical wisdom, heartfelt advice, and a profound understanding of the intricate interplay between leadership, authenticity, and personal growth.
The "Heart of Business" is the official podcast of International Facilitators Organization, LLC and hosted by IFO's founder and CEO, Mo Fathelbab. To learn more, please visit www.internationalfacilitatorsorganization.com.
The Heart of Business
Leading With Vulnerability: A Conversation With Dave Ingram
This episode features serial entrepreneur and facilitator Dave Ingram, who shares the pivotal moments that shaped his leadership—from his early landscaping business to building a 25-year executive search firm. Dave talks openly about the hard seasons, including the 2008 downturn, and how peer forums became his anchor for real talk and better decision-making.
We explore what makes forums work: experience sharing instead of advice, confidentiality that creates safety, and the discipline to be fully present. Dave also describes how these habits show up outside the boardroom, like helping runners of all backgrounds access coaches, shoes, support, and a welcoming community—leading to miles logged, new finish lines, and social barriers coming down.
Dave breaks down the craft of facilitation, why sharp questions outperform quick answers, and how frameworks like EOS stick when teams feel truly heard. He also shares how he uses AI as a thought partner without relying on it to replace human connection. If you care about leadership growth, peer learning, and building healthier organizations, this conversation gives you real tools and real hope.
Please visit www.internationalfacilitatorsorganization.com to learn more about Mo Fathelbab and International Facilitators Organization (IFO), a leading provider of facilitators and related group facilitation services, providing training, certification, marketing services, education, and community for peer group facilitators at all stages of their career.
Welcome to the Heart of Business Podcast, sponsored by International Facilitators Organization, the Marketplace for Facilitators. I'm your host, Mo Fatelbob, and today our guest is Dave Ingram, a serial entrepreneur and a good friend and an amazing facilitator. Dave, welcome to the show.
SPEAKER_01:Hey, thank you. Thanks for having me, Mo.
SPEAKER_00:Pleasure to have you. So, Dave, I want to just get started from the beginning. Tell us about your first entrepreneurial venture. I don't know. Was it painting house numbers on the on curbs when you're 12? Was it uh a paper route? What was the very early seed?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so the the earliest significant one was I started a uh landscaping company in high school. And uh it wasn't just any landscaping company, it's it was called Big Red. We named it after a truck, 1956 International. Um, and it was big. That company we did commercial and residential, we bought another company and merged it in. Uh, and then um ended up selling that company uh when I graduated from college. All right, all right, and then what? Uh then I went to work for about 10 years in the corporate world, and I worked for some amazing companies. Like the these companies had world-class training, they had world-class development. Um, and you know, the the corporate world was great for me for a lot of things, especially the training and such. Um, but I knew that um it probably wasn't gonna be my long-term fit.
SPEAKER_00:So then you decided to go back into entrepreneurship after 10 years of corporate and what business did you yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it was kind of a slippery slope because I started a company, uh, uh executive search firm with an expectation that um I would get a get a uh search and I would say, hey guys, save your you know$50,000, I'll take that job. So I kind of built it as a placeholder. Um, but then it really became real because I started that company with a HELOC. Uh, so I borrowed money and I got in more and more debt. And so I had no choice but to take that from a placeholder job to a real company out of pure financial necessity.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And how long did it take you from the time you got that business started to the time when you're like, okay, we're making some money. I could make a living doing this.
SPEAKER_01:That's a great question. Um, you know, about the third year in when I had people other than me contributing to the success of the business, when it was just me, it was it was not scalable. Um, but once I had some people that were contributing to the success of the company, that's that's when I started to kind of get encouraged, I would say.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And I'm just curious, what gave you the the inspiration to be an entrepreneur in the first place? Was there any entrepreneurship in your family?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, no, I I watched my dad. And uh my dad, I don't want to say I'm following in his footsteps, but he spent a lot of years in corporate and then he started his own company. And I watched the uh the you know awesomeness and I watched the pain. Um, but I figured, you know, if he can get out there and do it, I can go do it. And it was just part of life, you know. He would come home some days really excited. He'd come home some days like, wow, the world's ending. And it just became life to me.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. Did you ever feel that way in your own business? The world is ending.
SPEAKER_01:Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, you know, I think it's lonely, right? And you know, if I think of examples of the world ending, um 2008 in the financial crisis, right? 2008, 2009, you know, the irony there was we had become an Inc. 5000 honoree a couple of years in a row, but I was worried I was gonna lose the entire business. And so the world-ending part of it for me was having to let go a lot of really talented people that were counting on this job and understanding that, you know, I'm gonna have to let these guys go or the business will go away. Um, but it's not a great job market, right? And so that to me is world-ending, right? That you know, when I when I lose my ability to provide an opportunity for people to make a living to meet their goals, that that that's crushing. Um I've got lots of examples, lots of lots of world-ending examples.
SPEAKER_00:They only make you stronger, right?
SPEAKER_01:They yeah, they do.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, that's where you learn, right? Absolutely. So, and why did you choose the uh search business in the first place? How did you come to that to that decision?
SPEAKER_01:You know, I felt like my strength, first of all, low barrier to entry, right? So it it didn't it didn't cost me that much to get going. Um, secondly, my strength has always been recruiting great people around me to make me look good. And so it was natural for me to get into recruiting and sales, and um no, I I'm I love it. It's it's a lot of fun. I get to meet people, I get to talk to them, I get to, you know, create new job opportunities for them. I help companies grow. I mean, there's it's a lot of fun, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And that company still is going to this day, yeah?
SPEAKER_01:Companies still going to this day. We are here's I was just thinking about this. We are gonna turn 25 years old in March. Oh my god. And there's another thing, cross your fingers, but I think we're gonna make our 1000th placement right about the same time that we turned 25.
SPEAKER_00:Oh my god.
SPEAKER_01:So I I'm trying to make those two, you know, those two uh lines cross.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, congratulations. That sounds amazing. And so, Dave, how long ago did you join the Virginia Council of CEOs?
SPEAKER_01:Funny you should ask that, Mo.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it was August 15th, 2007. Wow, okay. So we met shortly thereafter, right? I would imagine.
SPEAKER_01:No, that that's the day that I met you. So that that that was when we kicked off the the forum.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And so you joined a forum, and uh let's talk about that a little bit. I mean, obviously, our listeners should know by now that uh forum is my gym, it's our jam, it's why we do what we do because uh we believe in it so so deeply. But let's let's just start with uh how did you find out about the Virginia Council of CEOs and and why did you join?
SPEAKER_01:You know, I don't know how I found out about it. Probably uh probably Dave Gallagher, actually. Um, because he invited me to a lunch at uh Willow Oaks to go get a kind of get an overview of what the organization does. Uh and I was in instantly. Um, you know, I I was 100% on board for being around people like me, people who have similar, you know, opportunities and challenges. Um, because you know, sitting at my desk all by myself, I didn't have a lot of support other than you know my head spinning.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so right away, really, you joined because you wanted to get into a peer group, a forum.
SPEAKER_01:Correct. Yeah. I wanted to be around people who had this similar challenges to what I had and see how they solved them um so that I could run my business better.
SPEAKER_00:Brilliant. So you go to forum training, you meet this uh crazy guy, Mo Fatal Bob, and uh what was that day like if you remember?
SPEAKER_01:Uh yes, it was like I've gotta jump in with both feet because everyone else is. It was somewhat uncomfortable, but also very liberating, actually. Um you know, I didn't I had no really didn't know what to expect. And so when I got there, I said, you know, I'm here, I'm all in, let's go.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And when you look back, you've been in this round table, perhaps you've been a member of a couple of them over the years. How have they helped you broadly? Uh, and then maybe what are some specific examples of where you've really benefited from your uh roundtable?
SPEAKER_01:So, I mean, the the impact of the round table has been immense. Like number one, how did it impact me broadly? Being able to sit in a room with other people who don't have anywhere else to go to talk about the challenges that they face, right? You can't talk about your employees about, you know, a reorganization necessarily. Uh, you can't talk to your employees about how am I going to make payroll? You can't talk to your employees about so many things that you know having a group to go to was just amazing. You know, I'll give you a specific example. And actually, this is not um this is not business related. Um, and and that's the other thing about the the forum environment is you know, it really allows the CEO to be a human and allows the understanding that you know not many people have the opportunity or burden to make a decision like, am I gonna hire someone else to expand my business or am I gonna put money in my kids' 529 account? Right? So the the the challenge of being a human and being a CEO is really that was difficult. And every single person in that room had the same challenge, frankly. And it was nice to be around that. Um I I've got lots of specific examples. I would say the one that I remember the most a number of years ago, we were trying to acquire a company, and I really wanted to do it. Um, and then you know, some of the people in the presentation process asked me some questions that really made me rethink it. Um and so I then actually went to my dad, who you know is a mentor of mine, and you know, he he's really good at listening and providing input. And then, you know, you just get that look. And the look is like quit trying to sell yourself on a bad idea, right? Just do it. Did that answer your question? So it's it's a combination of all the above, right? The the forum helped me center and understand the real issue. They provided some insight and shared some experiences uh that allowed me to go deeper and and make a good decision.
SPEAKER_00:And what would you say the forum effect is if you were asked, what's the forum effect? How has it affected the members of your group? How has it affected the community within uh the Virginia Council, the CEOs, and maybe other organizations that you've seen? What's the effect?
SPEAKER_01:Well, one is it teaches a set of skills that become lifetime skills, right? So as an individual, the effect is understanding this concept of gestalt and experience sharing and how that can work in every phase of your life, not just your business, right? I use it with my kids, I use it with my wife. There, they all get sick of me saying, here's my experience, they all want the answer. So that's an effect of of the forum on my life. The effect of it in um, you know, for my round table, it was that place where you know we all showed up every meeting because you had to, and you were expected to be able to contribute because people expected you to be there. Um and we knew that we were all there for each other, this concept of mutual assured success, this concept of being able to be vulnerable and not be judged, this concept that you can say something that's confidential and have 100% confidence that it's going to remain confidential. And so I think that, and and I just think over the years, watching the people go through the presentations, make good decisions, and grow their companies, um, you know, that's an effect. But also, you know, my a lot of my world revolves around community. And the CEO council is a community, and it's kind of like an oasis where you know you can go somewhere and you're you're not the only person on that island. There's a whole bunch of people on that island with you, and just the confidence and the opportunities that it represents to meet sharp people and to provide you know meaningful uh experience shares so people can make good decisions. Did that answer the question for you, Mo?
SPEAKER_00:Beautifully, beautifully, thank you. Yes, absolutely. So you uh talked about the importance of community, and I know that has meaning to you, not just in the community of entrepreneurs, but uh as an example with with other things in your life. Uh, I'm gonna let you talk about that. And and what other ways have have you leaned into this concept of community?
SPEAKER_01:So I am a runner, and a number of years ago, I dropped my daughter off for a voice lesson. It was about 35 degrees and blowing. It was cold, and I just I didn't have time to go home, so I decided to go for a run. And I was running down uh Grove Avenue in Richmond, and I saw this group of people running and laughing and having fun. And they said, Hey, why don't you join us? And so I did, and I kept joining them. It was a free run group uh designed to uh just bring people together coming out of the pandemic, and you know, that organization has been uh I can't measure the positive impact of it because it's been so great. And essentially what we do in that organization is we break barriers, you know. We you know, our core values are connecting, contributing, and conquering. And so we connect people who are in groups of people that they never thought they'd be around. Um, we build community, we just also happen to run. And so two weeks ago, we had over 200 people participate in the series of races around the Richmond Marathon. And I would say probably half of those people had never actually run a race. So it's the first time that specific community is 70% women and 72% BIPOC. So if someone comes and trains with us, we'll provide shoes for them, we'll provide coaches for them, we'll provide nutrition, we'll provide support. We're gonna help those people get where they need to go if they're committed to it, obviously.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And and tell me why uh that's meaningful to you.
SPEAKER_01:Um, you know, I'm not gonna be around forever. And so, you know, how how can I make a better mark on this world and be a part of the solution, right? You know, I I think you know, my my facilitation skills and experience actually help me in that group, um, because in a lot of ways they speak a different language than I'm used to. And um I have the ability to help them. You know, we we created a board, I'm on the board, and um actually we have a strategic annual strategic planning meeting tonight to get ready for next year. Um, but you know, that group last year we covered about 45,000 miles together. And if you run or you exercise with people, you know that you get to know people, and the the barriers fall down to relate to building relationships. Yeah, and so it's just it's just such a pure place of of just joy, love, and support.
SPEAKER_00:Kind of like a peer group. That's what I was wondering. Yeah, yeah. Um so you mentioned facilitation, and uh after many, many years as as a member of a forum, uh you decided to step into facilitating forums and uh and came to our certification class and have been doing amazing work with us for uh a couple of years now with IFO. Uh I'm curious, uh, first, uh, what made you decide to get into the facilitation work? And uh second, what it's meant to you and and how you feel about this work compared to your executive search work.
SPEAKER_01:Um, so why did I get into facilitation? I kind of fell into it. Um, I don't know if you remember that day back in 2007, but I was the first roundtable leader. And so, you know, it it came at me hard. Um, so I was very comfortable with it and I knew the system. Um, and then I kind of volunteered for it um because it it I don't know, you get to a point where doing stuff isn't work. Like I don't have to do that much preparation for it. Like it's I've been doing it long enough that I know I can walk in a room and positively impact people and help them sort things out. Um, and so I just I love it. Like it's it's so much fun. I get to meet amazing people. Um, you know, I've I don't know how many days of facilitation I have under me, but you know, the the ability to be around just really sharp people who are going out and being part of the solution of creating jobs, that's exciting to me.
SPEAKER_00:And when you do the facilitation work and you help people kind of uh figure things out and and have a meaningful uh maybe transformation, uh, what does it feel like for you at the end of the day?
SPEAKER_01:You know, it's the you know, we do the one word open and the one word close, right? And so after a presentation and the one word close, I bet seventy percent of the time, my word is gratitude.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And just the gratitude for the opportunity, gratitude for this group of people. Um just that I mean that's is very gratifying to be in a group like that, and even more gratifying if we can solve a big problem.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, feels good. It feels good. And so is it more gratifying than executive search work? That's a hard question to answer. I'll let you I'll let you parse that however you like.
SPEAKER_01:You know, the executive search work, I mean, if I if I look at it statistically, you know, the average placement that we've made has given about a 12% salary increase to people. Right? So that's pretty gratifying.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Right. You know, I'm I'm helping these people, you know, meet their goals, um, and making the match so a company can grow. I mean, that those are two things, right? When the companies grow and the CEOs grow, you know, that that raises the community around them. And so I don't I don't know if it's any more or less. Um, they're both just ingrained parts of my life.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that makes perfect sense. And uh, I could see how they they have uh a different uh added addition, so to speak, a different benefit to you. Yeah, yeah, I think that's great. Um, so Dave, let's talk about um the the the next 10 years. What do you foresee in this world of of AI and increased EQ awareness and increased uh understanding of the importance of vulnerability? How do you see all that coming together?
SPEAKER_01:So AI is here, um, is not going anywhere. And you know, my view on it is I'm gonna learn it and I'm gonna make that a strategic strength of mine. You know, I it's it's a storm, right? It feels like a storm sometimes is how much stuff is coming at me, and um, you know, in a storm, you don't necessarily get through it by hunkering down. Sometimes you just gotta walk through it. And, you know, I think that, you know, AI is my thought partner, and um, I use it all the time. Um I don't feel like I don't see a path to it being able to do the type of facilitation work that we do. You know, when you're in person or even virtually with a group of people, there's so much hidden nuance. There are you know body gestures that happen, there are smiles, there are frowns, there are rolling of the eyes. Um, I don't see it replacing the the facilitation work. Where it does help is, you know, preparation and thought and those types of things. But you know, a lot of the the thing about AI is you've got to be able to take the conversations and make sense of them. And you know, I use different tools every day to record different types of things, but let me tell you what's not allowed in a forum is any type of recording information or tools, right? Right, right. So you still gotta be a human in that scenario. Um did that that provide a little bit of insight?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. I listen, I mean, I think uh you're right on. I have seen some rudimentary tools that do some basic facilitation. Yeah. Uh, but I do ask myself the question all the time, both as a business owner and as a practitioner, will this technology actually, you know, get to get to the point where we can uh use it for uh you know the masses? Because as you know, uh I have a very, very uh lofty goal of getting a billion people in peer groups by 2053. And if I think about our current uh model with facilitators and the price of the facilitators and and really hand holding people through this, uh I wonder uh if we if we can somehow uh use AI to scale a bit faster, uh not having to rely on on facilitators.
SPEAKER_01:So I think that where the tool will be most useful is in lead generation and telling the story, right? I don't I don't think it's gonna replace facilitators, but there are certainly things that you can do to create bots and create um, you know, interactive Q ⁇ A type of things. Um, you know, have you ever felt like you're alone on an island and being the only one who actually cared about the success of your business? Right. So the ability to get to people and to ask those questions in mass, I feel like that'll help a lot. Um I don't I don't have confidence in the facilitation, the the AI's ability to do that. I do have confidence in AI's ability to do a whole bunch of other things, and and that's what I use it for. So it's a really amazing tool set that's out there that's just getting better every day. But just reading a room and watching how people interact, I think it's gonna, I guess it's gonna be a long time before the AI tools get there, especially in mass.
SPEAKER_00:You'd have to have a camera on each person. That camera would have to read their emotions, that camera would have to have some some technology behind it from from uh you know that's a whole lot of stuff to read. That's a lot of that's a lot of body language to read.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and you know, it's when to call on the person who's got their arms crossed, right? So, like someone's gotta pull them in. I mean, if there's if there are ways that I can use it to become better at anything I do, facilitation, whatever the case may be, I want to learn it. Um, I just haven't found it practical in that environment. What I do find it practical in is telling me different ways to ask questions. Right? So, hey, I'm going into this group, you know, vulnerability-based trust. What are three to five questions that I could ask the group that might bring out some reactions? So, you know, those are the areas that I'm using it now. Um, but it just doesn't replace the human. Doesn't replace the human. Maybe AI can ask questions that bring tears in a positive way. But I I don't know.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So vulnerability is one of those things that uh you and I uh talk about and and practice and and uh lean into. Uh and some people obviously are quite scared of it, and often uh, you know, the the general understanding is you don't want to be vulnerable. Uh but for us it has a different meaning and a different connotation. Can you speak to that a little bit from your perspective?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think um vulnerability. I mean, I got the term from you, you got it from a Stanford professor. Like vulnerability is the currency of relationships. And I think that I'm so comfortable with it because I have to do it every day, and I have complete confidence that the people in the room are there to support each other, this mutual assured success. You know, I don't know that, you know, I was brought up to cry to, hey, it's okay to cry, right? Um, you know, I had an amazing family, and you know, I was probably luckier than a lot of people, but a lot of people that I've worked with in that environment, they've never had the the license to just let it all hang out.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And so it becomes a natural protective thing to not be vulnerable, right? Um so it's a new muscle that people have to learn to use. And the only way that I know to do that is put them in an environment where that behavior is mirrored so they feel comfortable, you know, becoming vulnerable and comfortable, you know, exhibiting trust that, you know, historically, they didn't have that channel, that room, for example. Um, but I see it, I see the benefits of it every time it happens. You know, it's it's it's just so amazing to see the relief on people's face when they're able to come in and share something that's just been bothering them that they had nowhere else to share it. And then, you know, you just see the weight lift from them. You see the the stress evaporate. And, you know, I think once you feel that once, you want it again. And again, you know, it's it's the type of thing that um it's really it's really gratifying and exciting for me to see it.
SPEAKER_00:It is, it is. I have to agree with that. So let's talk about your facilitation work. What are the various kinds of facilitations that you do at this at this day and age?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so it's it's pretty much I mean, whether I'm facilitating a uh a direct hire, yeah, I don't actually work in that business very much right now. I've got someone who runs that for me and she's amazing, but that's just facilitating getting two people on the same page or a person in a company on the same page. You know, facilitating the forum work is amazing. You know, everything I do is around people, process, and sales, right? So people facilitation that is doing the forum work, that's doing the executive search work, those types of things. Process facilitation is, you know, I'm an EOS implementer, so entrepreneurial operating system. That's all facilitation. Um, and you know, the I'm amazed how the answer is always in the room, and the facilitator's job is not to provide that answer, but to ask questions so those teams can get to that answer. And so that that's a great example of facilitation skills. Um, you know, facilitation skills as it relates to um revenue growth, right? So three distinctly different offerings, right? And so that's the outgrow offering, which creates 15 to 30 percent increased predictable revenue growth. That's facilitation uh to get people to understand that if they swing the bat, they're gonna hit the ball occasionally. And wow, when you hit that ball, it feels so good. But if you don't swing the bat, and I can't facilitate to a point that they they do that, they're not gonna have that feeling of you know hitting the ball, you know, in the sweet spot and watching it sail over the fence.
SPEAKER_00:You're a golfer too, I understand, right?
SPEAKER_01:Yes. Um sometimes I'm a pretty good golfer, sometimes I'm a bad golfer, but yes, I love playing golf.
SPEAKER_00:How do you cope with the days that uh your golf game is not what you hoped for?
SPEAKER_01:So I don't take myself very seriously. Um and actually I had one of those rounds a couple weeks ago, and I was playing with some guys that I'd never met before who were good golfers, and I just couldn't pull it together. Like I just couldn't do it, and um so I kind of laughed it off, probably nervous after in the beginning, because I was a little embarrassed. And then on the back nine, I decided to change things up and I turned on my speaker and cranked up some music, you know, to try to get get a little energy, get me in the rhythm. Yeah, and about halfway through the back nine, I was still performing so poorly, and one of the guys looked at me and he goes, Sometimes it's just not your day. And I'm like, you know, it wasn't my day that day, but it was a fantastic day. It was beautiful. We walked the golf course, we got exercise, I got to meet new people, you know. That was I don't know.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's how I think of it. I'm lucky to be outside with some wonderful people, getting some exercise, doing something I love.
SPEAKER_01:But I can't control every shot, can I? Yeah, no. I mean, you got the golf journey coming, right? We need to get together and hopefully we can pull our A games together. But if not, I can tell you we'll have a good time. All right, all right.
SPEAKER_00:I look forward to it. Uh, Dave, what are um one or two books that have really meant something to you? And what did you take from each of them?
SPEAKER_01:So um Bo Burlingham wrote a book called Small Giants. And, you know, his definition that you don't have to be big to be great, and the concept of when you lose the ability to make an exception, you may have lost the personal connection to people in an organization. Um, so that one was amazing. Um Stephen Covey, you know, The Seven Habits. Classic. I I think about that book, you know, and I think about that scene in that book where it describes sitting in the back of a church at a funeral and watching a peer, watching a family member, watching a community member, and you realize that it's actually your funeral, and what are those people gonna be saying about you? Um Pat Lincioni's Five Dysfunctions of a Team.
SPEAKER_02:And they're great.
SPEAKER_01:It's all about you know, how can we leverage this trust to build a better performing organization? And um, you know, I think many companies are really good at being smart and not as good at being healthy, and healthy is that strategic synergistic advantage that that when companies can get there, they really do well and feel good doing it.
SPEAKER_00:I love that. I love that. Uh so Dave, as you look ahead, what do you think the impact is when we get to a billion people in peer groups? Like, think about the global impact of a billion people really leaning into this methodology, leaning into having uh a powerful support structure, leaning into learning our important language of not generalizing and judging and and all of that, all of that wonderful stuff that we do. What do you think the impact is on a global level?
SPEAKER_01:I think we'd have a lot less people yelling at screaming at each other and a lot more people listening to each other. You know, we we have a uh communication, you know, let's let's go back to with the question that you asked. Hey, you know, sometimes you get people in who aren't used to this type of communication, right? To allow themselves to be vulnerable. You know, if I just look at the environment and look at all the people who are are doing 90% talking and 10% listening. And, you know, when we create this environment for this billion people, we're gonna teach them how to listen and how to process and how to listen to someone else like they may be right. Right. So I I see not only an impact on the individuals, but I see a significant cultural impact when people can have you know honest discussions about things that they disagree with without you know trying to beat each other up. I don't want to make it that simple, but it's kind of that simple to me.
SPEAKER_00:Listen, you're you're preaching to the choir, and uh, I couldn't have said it any better, but I agree with you uh a thousand percent, and and uh hopefully we can make that happen someday. Uh Dave, any last coming up or now? That's right, maybe sooner than we expect. I love that. Um, Dave, any last uh words of wisdom advice? Not advice, that was a trick question.
SPEAKER_01:Uh I don't know. I mean, I would like to thank you because you introduced me to this opportunity, right? And you have been an amazing support and mentor over the years. And truly, I wouldn't, I don't think I would be mentally and kind of spiritually where I am if I hadn't come across this work. So thank you, Mo. Um my experience share would be if you have the opportunity to get in a forum or a peer group, do it. Uh, don't, you know, don't delay because there's so much awesomeness available to you there.
SPEAKER_00:And actually, one last question. What has been your experience uh as a member of IFO, International Facilitators Organization? What has been your experience like?
SPEAKER_01:You know, I think going on a retreat with people who have already developed the confidence and vulnerability and how quickly you can really solve deep problems. Right. Um, so the IFO retreat was unbelievable. And just think about all the people I've met along the way. I mean, there's some truly amazing people. And if I can keep surrounding myself with truly amazing people, I win.
SPEAKER_00:Well said. Dave Ingram, thank you very much. Thank you to our audience. And as a reminder, podcast reviews have a real impact on a podcast's visibility. So please leave a review to help others find the show. Uh, finally, you could find all our episodes on our website at International Facilitators Organization.com. Thank you for listening and have a great day.
